Curse

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

I personally like this setup because...

PvE play actually IMPACTS if you have access to the content or not; FoW and UW were ONLY impacted by HoH.

I can form an alliance with multiple guilds and HAVE and EARN the right to this content. Earn being the key word. I wanted there to be some thing that PvE players could have/hold that showed what they had accomplished. The Titles are a good start... the Fact that I can get "bonus" elite missions by working hard with my guildies and my alliance members is fantastic.

Oh... I also think that some of you have MISSED that the more faction you have the faster you lose it. Imagine you earning faction and saving it up over a month... then you ALL go and turn it in... you would have a chance at getting that elite content then... but it would evaporate quickly... but you would have a chance.

the difference is, if a small group wanted to get into UW/FoW and their region didn't have favor, they could conceivably win HoH and obtain access to UW/FoW...in Factions, a small group has little or no power over whether they have access to endgame content...they have to rely on others if they want access...

thus, numbers + grind > skill + small, close groups

the whole "you just don't wanna work for it" argument is crap...it's not that we don't want to work, it's that we were PROMISED that we would not have to grind in order to fully experience the game...

samifly · May 04, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Let us say this again, its not how good you are, or how much you work, but how big your alliance is.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

the difference is, if a small group wanted to get into UW/FoW and their region didn't have favor, they could conceivably win HoH and obtain access to UW/FoW...

Actually, it's more about Europe and America having SO MANY players. 100000's of players levels up the playing, and you have more chance to have a HoH holder in your continent...

samifly · May 04, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

Actually, it's more about Europe and America having SO MANY players. 100000's of players levels up the playing, and you have more chance to have a HoH holder in your continent...

Yes but a good HoH team is 8 players, I could take and hold halls, not entirely likely but I could, with my small guild. 8 people vs 1000.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

Actually, it's more about Europe and America having SO MANY players. 100000's of players levels up the playing, and you have more chance to have a HoH holder in your continent...

what i mean is, a group of 8 players with a hypothetical skill level of 100 is capable of hold HoH vs. 10000 players with skill levels of 50...thus, a small group can control their own destiny...

in Factions, the 8 person group has little or no chance because the big alliances have 10,000 less skilled players farming faction...thus numbers/grind > skill...

BroilerBayBurgers · May 04, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Turns out the alliance that holds the key towns can take ANYONE into the restricted areas of Cavalon or House Zu Heltzer to access the Elite missions they want. Just ask one of them to take you past the guard (it takes about 5 seconds) and you're free to play the Elite Mission for your side to your hearts content. The Alliances that have held House Zu Heltzer so far have been really cool about letting people in who simply ask.

I'm sure this will start some crazy thread about how everyone now has to bow down and kiss the feet of the holding Alliance to get into the Elite missions and how horrible that is....But in the grand scheme of things we all can get in basically any time we want, which is really what's important! I'll re-iterate I've run into very few guilds who are mean about not allowing in those who ask, kudos to the really cool Alliances so far who have made the Elite missions fun for everyone.

All hail the burgers (and onion rings).

Gli · May 04, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire Arcanum

"Yeah, me and my 4 currently active guildies would love to be able to do that as well. "

The point of the elite mission limited access is obviously to give you an incentive to go find a large guild to join rather than sitting around with the henchies waiting for one or two ppl in your small guild to show up. Small guilds will go the way of the ma and pa grocery store. It's Walmart time folks. All five of the above guildies can join the same guild that is a member of a large alliance and no one will even notice. They will still be in the same guild and they will have hundreds of other guildmates to team up with.

I don't want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire Arcanum

Anet sees that small guilds limit the enjoyment of the game for their members, so its time to get ppl to join the larger guilds.

Errr... nice turnaround. ANet is actually the force responsible for the limited enjoyment of these small guilds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire Arcanum

If you quit whining and find a competitive alliance and join one of the guilds in the alliance, then all will be well.

I don't want to. I have no intention to build an virtual private life. I shouldn't have to. In Prophecies, I didn't have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire Arcanum

Sure, you don't get to keep that crappy cape you designed and that guild hall you never use because there are never enough peeps on in your current guild to form an 8 man team, but oh well, you didn't succeed at empire building, face it and move on. If you can't beat em, join em.

Top marks for projecting your own personal hopes and desires on people you don't know the first thing about.

Esprit · May 04, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

Let us say this again, its not how good you are, or how much you work, but how big your alliance is.

It should be the opposite of that. It's like medieval battles where commanders threw their soldiers at the opposing army with large numbers, hoping to overwhelm them rather than beat them using skill.

Elite Missions should not be restricted to those who can throw the most Faction around.

BroilerBayBurgers · May 04, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Elite Missions should not be restricted to those who can throw the most Faction around.

Read 2 posts up, it's not.

Knight Of Morion · May 04, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jules

I haven't bought Factions (yet) but from what I've been told the majority of faction earned will be from PvE. If this is true, competitive PvP guilds will not have an advantage over a big PvE guild.

Yes, And that was the exact point of it, they wanted to get more people engaged in PvE. I think this is great, we could use more people doing PvE missions and quests. Maybe they will come out better farming concepts and such...

Fitz Rinley · May 04, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

Why not? I dont see any reason why PvE can't have some competion. If we get rid of competetion, why even bother have it online?

Modern English has lost the meaning of competition. There is plenty of reason to have the game on line and be competitive in PvE/P. They need not be competitive in the same way.

op·po·si·tion (plural op·po·si·tions) noun,
2. sports opponent: the person or team that you or another player or team have to play against. (PvP)

Opposition has always held this meaning to the original Latin language.

com·pe·ti·tion (plural com·pe·ti·tions) noun,
1. process of trying to beat others: the process of trying to win or do better than others

Competition has not always held this meaning. Com - petere means to walk together, and implies remaining distinct from one another. It is not being unified, but being companioned. I have used this example elsewhere - Legolas and Gimli are competitors, not opponents. They try to see which can out kill or out drink the other. The title system gives opportunity for competition.

PvP players are attracted tot he spirit of opposition and proving superiority over another, currently. They have no requirement or even opportunity to act ina chivalrouos manner. PvE players are playing competitively. They work with each other with the intent of trying to become better, with each other. They do not oppose fellow players.

If you consider this, you will see there is plenty of room for exploring mature competition, without demanding opposition to one another by region, team, or party. Nor do the results of competition need to be denigrating of fellow players or deny them the opportunity to play the game they paid for as their entertainment.

Fitz

Fitz Rinley · May 04, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroilerBayBurgers

I'm sure this will start some crazy thread about how everyone now has to bow down and kiss the feet of the holding Alliance to get into the Elite missions and how horrible that is....''

And I would completely agree with such a thread.

Fitz

Kakumei · May 04, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroilerBayBurgers

Turns out the alliance that holds the key towns can take ANYONE into the restricted areas of Cavalon or House Zu Heltzer to access the Elite missions they want. Just ask one of them to take you past the guard (it takes about 5 seconds) and you're free to play the Elite Mission for your side to your hearts content. The Alliances that have held House Zu Heltzer so far have been really cool about letting people in who simply ask.

I'm sure this will start some crazy thread about how everyone now has to bow down and kiss the feet of the holding Alliance to get into the Elite missions and how horrible that is....But in the grand scheme of things we all can get in basically any time we want, which is really what's important! I'll re-iterate I've run into very few guilds who are mean about not allowing in those who ask, kudos to the really cool Alliances so far who have made the Elite missions fun for everyone.

All hail the burgers (and onion rings).

Do you have to just have them with you to pass through the gates, or do you actually have to have one of them go into the mission with you?

Ellipson · May 04, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroilerBayBurgers

Turns out the alliance that holds the key towns can take ANYONE into the restricted areas of Cavalon or House Zu Heltzer to access the Elite missions they want. Just ask one of them to take you past the guard (it takes about 5 seconds) and you're free to play the Elite Mission for your side to your hearts content. The Alliances that have held House Zu Heltzer so far have been really cool about letting people in who simply ask.

So in other words, yes, it sucks that only a certain group can access the mission on their own, but it looks like they can open the door for you and send you on your merry way.

It's probably going to end up being an inconvienience comparable to favor (for the big geographical areas, anyway). Yes, you can't jump in right away, but with a little patience and a few whispers, you'll get your shot. Or so it seems.

Cymboric Treewalker · May 04, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

What, you think every skill change that was meant for PVP didnt effect us PVE'rs?

I made no comments about that at all...

But previously the only wat you could get in to HoH was through your "region" taking and keeping the HoH (PvP) play. It is possible now to earn faction and earn the right to the elite missions through PvE play... that I like.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroilerBayBurgers

Turns out the alliance that holds the key towns can take ANYONE into the restricted areas of Cavalon or House Zu Heltzer to access the Elite missions they want. Just ask one of them to take you past the guard (it takes about 5 seconds) and you're free to play the Elite Mission for your side to your hearts content. The Alliances that have held House Zu Heltzer so far have been really cool about letting people in who simply ask.

I'm sure this will start some crazy thread about how everyone now has to bow down and kiss the feet of the holding Alliance to get into the Elite missions and how horrible that is....But in the grand scheme of things we all can get in basically any time we want, which is really what's important! I'll re-iterate I've run into very few guilds who are mean about not allowing in those who ask, kudos to the really cool Alliances so far who have made the Elite missions fun for everyone.

All hail the burgers (and onion rings).

If this continues to be the trend (holding alliances allow others in) then it will be fine. Many people here, including myself, feel that eventually, the holding alliance will see this as a money making opportunity, and start charging admission prices.

Honestly, I really don't care if my guild/alliance ever holds one of the key towns. I just want a way to play the missions. Have them charge me 5K in Faction (not money) to play them, and reward the alliances that do hold the key towns (rare skin perfect weapons maybe?), but don't lock out everyone who is NOT a member of a faction-farming UBER Alliance.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

And I would completely agree with such a thread.

Fitz

Do you bow down and worship members of the top PvP guilds when they show up in a city you are in?

Cymboric Treewalker · May 04, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

what i mean is, a group of 8 players with a hypothetical skill level of 100 is capable of hold HoH vs. 10000 players with skill levels of 50...thus, a small group can control their own destiny...

in Factions, the 8 person group has little or no chance because the big alliances have 10,000 less skilled players farming faction...thus numbers/grind > skill...

So you like the elitism of PvP HoH controlling the fate of all others getting in to FoW/UW vs. the ability of a large PvE guild with little or no skill in PvP getting access to elite missions?

Wow.

Sorry I think it is balanced... large alliances now can overcome the "elite" few.

eudas · May 04, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This is PvE.

PVE.

Let's break that down. Player versus Environment. That is, players (real people like you and me, sitting behind our keyboards) fighting against the environment (the game, the monsters, the AI--things that are not other players).

Why should I have to be competitive anywhere in PvE? At all? Let alone to access the "pinnacle of PvE challenge"?

How does that make sense at all?

well, to be completely pedantic, you're *competing* for survival against the environment.

the problem is, of course, that that competition isn't particularly difficult, in practical terms. the crappy AI is an example of this. like most games, AI suffers, and the developers turn towards forcing the players against each other since they're not able to offer the players significant challenges in any other way.

eudas

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So you like the elitism of PvP HoH controlling the fate of all others getting in to FoW/UW vs. the ability of a large PvE guild with little or no skill in PvP getting access to elite missions?

Wow.

Sorry I think it is balanced... large alliances now can overcome the "elite" few.

This is balance? So you assume that everyone in the game is now either in a small PVP elite guild or in a super-alliance that has the full 1000 players? I think this "balance" ignores at least 50% of the gaming community.